New PowerBooks Announced - no G5

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• Endymion - Thursday, February 3, 2005 - link

  Jeff Kalman "nothing wrong with being an artsy-fartsy computer-illiterate person in my opinion, like I said, my wife is one"
  
  I was going to respond to the inaccuracies, linguistic errors and illogicality in your post but when I read this I felt your own words sum up the problem better than I could.
  
  Do you always leave your boots on when you put your feet in your mouth?

• Michael2k - Thursday, February 3, 2005 - link

  Oh, that's what you mean?
  
  But everyone does it. When Sony introduces changes to it's TV lineup, they change the part number and it's a 'new' TV. When Ford does it to it's Escape, its the 'new' Ford Escape. When Friends does it to their show, its a 'new' episode.
  
  What is new, and what isn't? How much has to change before the word 'new' doesn't insult you?
  
  You would prefer that Apple say, "The newly updated PowerBooks," and "The faster CPU," and "The better GPU"?

• Jeff Kalman - Thursday, February 3, 2005 - link

  "My favorite examples of this are experiments that prove video games cause violence (as if humans aren't inherently violent apes at heart inhibited by social mechanisms)."
  
  Oh, sorry for the hyperbole.
  
  Adios

• Jeff Kalman - Thursday, February 3, 2005 - link

  #22 I want the mobile version of the G5 that IBM has been working on, the one that is built to run cooler, or I want Apple to stop acting as if the upgrades are a brand new line of powerbooks (either will do). If you don't see how Apple overhypes their products, I don't know how to make you see it without wasting more time than I already have (I added my response to your post last - so everything below actually came before this). Suffice it to say, calling the upgrades to the powerbooks, "new powerbooks", is an example of this chronic condition. I mention more in my other responses.
  
  #23 I wouldn't trust a study that is based on someone else's perception of which forum content is more intelligent or "more mature". That is just me. I do seem to recall you mentioning Mac and cross platform, not cross platform only. I just chose to attack one argument, which is not a flaw in logic since the argument splits into two arguments at the point where you use the word "and". I agree with your point on cross platforms (or, rather, I can follow it as more plausible), I don't agree with your observation about Mac users. The way I look at it, the immature users are usually always the outsiders on any forum and tend to be a smaller percentage of users. As you raise the total amount of users you likely raise the probability that any user interacting with the site is one of the immature users and could potentially post. There is always the possibility that the numbers will simply balance out and you will have an equal distribution of immature to mature (ratio wise) between the two forums, but even then you would still see more negative posts than if you were on the smaller site, but likewise more mature posts as well. In cases where a user base is smaller, the immature users lose a level of anonymity that an outsider needs in order to feel comfortable with being a jerk in public. That is just my take on it. I bet you could prove either way of thinking about the topic with the data that is out there. It seems psychologists like to play that kind of game with statistics, and often do frame the numbers towards a hypothesis they want to prove. My favorite examples of this are experiments that prove video games cause violence (as if humans aren't inherently violent apes at heart inhibited by social mechanisms).
  
  #24 I told you not to take anything personally... I never even mentioned graphic arts. My wife is a graphic artist with a degree from Parsons. She knows Quark Express, Photoshop, Illustrator, and all the other great programs that they use nowadays. One thing she is not, is technically intelligent. She is capable of it, but has no interest in it, and has no time. While she knows the niche programs used in her field she does not understand how a CPU functions internally, or the difference between a G4 and a G5, or, more importantly, how Amdahl's law is used to determine the speedup of a computer system based on the change of speed of certain components of the system. I feel that Apple intentionally exploits this flaw in its computer illiterate crowd by overhyping insignificant details in its systems on its website. As far as defining computer literacy, I would consider a computer literate person to have a more encompassing understanding of computers than just their niche programs. Even an application level understanding of computers and OS functioning doesn't seem adequate to fit my definition of computer literate since understanding of hardware is vital to the implementation of these abstractions.
  
  It is sort of upsetting that you felt the need to insult me by alluding to "maturity". If you ask me, your reaction to a comment not directed at you, which resulted in you attacking me personally, makes you immature. I'm sorry if you feel you or your friends are one of the artsy-fartsy computer-illiterate people I was referring to in the last post. What I don't understand is, if they aren't of that category, why did you take it so personally, or feel the need to respond? If your friends don't fit in the category I mentioned, then I obviously wasn't talking about your friends. Besides, there is nothing wrong with being an artsy-fartsy computer-illiterate person in my opinion, like I said, my wife is one, and well, I married her! A company will tend to exploit what it can to make money, and Apple knows how to exploit its older user base, which I find hard to stomach. I don't read their advertising anymore for the reasons I already stated, and instead go straight to the Apple Developer papers on the architecture of the system, which is usually very detailed and accurate.
  
  As far as understanding your friends' choice of platform, I do understand. I actually knew one of the lead programmers/designers (who died last year or the year before) for Illustrator who also happened to teach at Parsons (Illustrator and the other adobe design programs are what started the whole Apple-artsy-fartsy thing -- I personally have been using Apple since the ][c and owned the Mac SE 30 and many other Apple systems along the progression of the company's hardware development). He was my wife's Godfather. I myself went down the path of Graphic Design (at Parsons as well) for a little bit before I decided I liked programming more. So you see, I am one of those artsy-fartsy types who happens to be computer literate (BS in Applied CS with a specialization in Networking) and is currently working on an MS at the school listed in my e-mail address, in the topic listed in my e-mail address. Parsons, btw, still has my self-portrait and collage that I submitted in the school application process because they used them in the new student showcase (9 or so years later and they still havn't sent them back, guess that is why they have that clause about owning any student work that is produced while attending Parsons, j/k).
  
  In, short (or long at this point), just because your friends can use a few, or a lot, of programs from their niche market on the Mac, doesn't make them computer literate to me. I'm sure they do know their subjects and their speciality programs well, but, my point was never that they do not know their fields well, and is a symptom of you misinterpriting what I originally wrote.
  
  I don't see this going anywhere after this but towards more arguments, so, peace everyone and sorry for the long read.
  
  Oh, and don't use a Mohel with herpes...

• Endymion - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link

  That should have been directed at #21 Jeff Kalman
  
  Apologies Mephisto
  
  Excuse the double post - the web site threw up an error message. A second posting resulted in duplication.

• Endymion - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link

  #14 "artsy-fartsy computer-illiterate crowd"
  
  I find that an arrogant and inaccurate description of the graphic arts. I worked for several years in the Ad, Media & Publishing industries and have several close friends and relatives who work as graphic artists, journalists, TV producers and sound effects editors. I assure you that, working 10 hours a day on their Macs, to tight deadlines for six and seven figure contracts they know their subject and their tools very well.
  
  It really doesn't matter that you don't understand their choice of platform for such critical computer work. What does is that you appear to be letting some personal issues get the better of you in forgetting your manners. Earlier in your post you had something to say about maturity in fora...

• Endymion - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link

  #14 "artsy-fartsy computer-illiterate crowd"
  
  I find that an arrogant and inaccurate description of the graphic arts. I worked for several years in the Ad, Media & Publishing industries and have several close friends and relatives who work as graphic artists, journalists, TV producers and sound effects editors. I assure you that, working 10 hours a day on their Macs, to tight deadlines for six and seven figure contracts they know their subject and their tools very well.
  
  It really doesn't matter that you don't understand their choice of platform for such critical computer work. What does is that you appear to be letting some personal issues get the better of you in forgetting your manners. Earlier in your post you had something to say about maturity in fora...

• Mephisto - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link

  #Jeff Kalman "#14 Noticing more mature users on Mac sites is likely just a product of the significantly smaller user base"
  
  With all due respect that is a non sequiteur. A small user base does not guarantee maturity. I also mentioned cross platform sites where the potential user base it the largest possible. I put it down to people open-minded enough to consider other platforms being more likely to have a mature attitude towards conversation about it.
  
  If you think about it: Mac and 'nix users have had to make a conscious platform choice, unlike many Windows users who will have come across nothing else (note: I do not say ALL Windows users). Using a Mac or Linux is certainly not the path of least resistance.
  
  A more contentious issue is that a couple of studies suggest that Mac users tend, on average, to be more intelligent:
  
  http://news.com.com/2100-1040-943519.html
  http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/35130.html
  
  Note the second article is based on literary analysis of posts to online fora and includes predominantly 'nix site SlashDot. For my own part I happen to think that SlashDot provides the wittiest & best informed tech forum.
  
  As a disclaimer I'd like to make clear that I do not believe using Microsoft products lowers the IQ or that people of high IQ don't use them.

• Michael2k - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link

  I don't see what you're complaining about, Jeff, on the Apple website.
  
  What you want is what Apple wants. At current it isn't possible without creating a 1.7" PowerBook weighing in at 9 pounds.
  
  That's just the law of thermodynamics for you.

• Jeff Kalman - Wednesday, February 2, 2005 - link

  *I invite no one to take what I say personally, as people often do when they become attached to certain companies...
  
  #14 Noticing more mature users on Mac sites is likely just a product of the significantly smaller user base compared to Windows users in general, i.e. - if the number of users were reversed, you would likely notice that Windows sites have more mature users since statistically there are less users overall to post, thus making the negative posts less frequent.
  
  #18 Blizzard games are extremely popular, and World of Warcraft has both Mac and Windows versions in the same box.
  
  I'm personally not very impressed by the new laptops, and don't feel that the changes are large enough to warrant the extent of the new advertising on the site. They need to release a G5 laptop already. They need to implement a 400 MHz memory bus on these things as well. Just changing the CPU speed and the video card does not make it a "new system" in my opinion and just makes me, and likely other savy *nix users, who are already wary of Apple's tendency to stretch the truth beyond all reason, even less trusting of their products. Honestly, all the changes are simple part swaps, most of which could have been done before hand through a customized online order.
  
  Someone needs to spank Steve Jobs (j/k, maybe just chastise him a little) till he understands that the *nix users who are starting to use Mac OS X are not the artsy-fartsy computer-illiterate crowd he is used to dealing with. It is insulting to read the obnoxiously over-enthusiastic advertisements when the actual changes made are insignificant... I mean, the way they advertise you would think that it really is a completely new system! What can you do, I guess Apple wouldn't pull this crap if some idiots out there didn't inevitably fall for it and buy a system that is incrementally better than their last system for a large price tag.
  
  Guess I will have to pack it up and wait another six months to a year to get my G5 laptop. My TiBook still runs great for the projects I need to work on, thankfully.